From Freak to Geek: Targeted Ketogenesis, Exercise and the 4 Hour Body Slow Carb Diet

by Stephen

The 4 Hour Body slow-carb diet (despite what many people have said) is, or rather I should say can be, a ketogenic diet. I have documented this many times in my patient population using Tim’s protocols (i.e “The Five Golden Rules”).

In the most general terms, a ketogenic diet is any diet that causes ketone bodies to be produced by the liver, shifting the body’s metabolism away from glucose and toward fat utilization. More specifically, a ketogenic diet is one that restricts carbohydrates below a certan level (usually 100 grams per day), inducing a series of adaptations to take place.

Under ‘normal’ dietary conditions, the body runs on a mix of carbohydrates, protein and fat. When carbohydrates are removed from the diet, the body’s small stores (in the liver and muscle)  are quickly depleted. Consequently, the body is forced to find an alternative fuel to provide energy. One of these fuels is free fatty acids (FFA), which can be used by most tissues in the body.

The brain and the nervous system are unable to use FFA for fuel but can use ketone body’s. Your brain get’s these ketone bodies from breakdown of FFA in the liver. These ketone bodies then accumulate in the bloodstream and cause the metabolic state known as ketosis.

On a side note: It is a theory that it is the brains conversion to use of ketone bodies for fuel which accounts for the “state of euphoria” (for lack of a better term) that people feel while on a carbohydrate restricted diet.

Simultaneously there is a decrease in glucose utilization and production. Also there is a decrease in the breakdown of protein to be used for energy. Thus ketogenic diets are perfect for those attempting to lose body fat while sparing lean body mass.

As with any fat-loss diet, exercise will improve the success of the ketogenic diet. However many people who have been using the 4 Hour Body slow carb diet encounter a problem when trying to maintain a state of ketosis (with a diet devoid of carbohydrates) and sustain high-intensity exercise (*such as P90X).  Although low intensity exercise may be performed usually without problems.

For this reason, individuals who wish to use the 4 Hour Body slow-carb diet and perform high-intensity exercise must integrate carbohydrates without disrupting the effects of ketosis.

Although the 4 Hour Body slow-carb diet does alternate periods of ketogenic dieting with periods of high-carbohydrate consumption (the binge day) this “refilling” of the body’s muscle glycogen stores may not be enough to sustain a week long high intensity workout program. In this example I am thinking of a car that sometime around mid-week runs out of gas and is left puttering into the station for a weekend refueling.

This is not good for your automobile and is also not good for your body.

In Lyle McDonald’s wonderful book “The Ketogenic Diet” (which was recommended briefly in the 4HB)  he talks about the targeted ketogenic diet. Which basically say’s this:

  1. Individuals following the cyclical ketogenic diet (Tim’s slow-carb diet) who want to perform high intensity activity will absolutely have to consume carbs at some point around exercise. The only difference is that calories must be adjusted to account for the carbohydrates being consumed around training.
  2. The safest time to consume carbs, in terms of maintaining ketosis, is before a workout and ketosis should be reestablished soon after training. Depending on total training volume, 25-50 grams of carbohydrates taken 30-60 minutes prior to training seems to be a good amount. The type of carbohydrate is less critical for pre-workout carbs but quickly digested, high GI carbs seem to work best to avoid stomach upset.
  3. If more than 50 grams of carbohydrates must be consumed around training, it may bebeneficial to split the total amount, consuming half (25 grams) 30 minutes before training and the other half (25 grams) at the beginning (or during) of the workout.
  4. If post-workout carbohydrates are consumed, an additional 25-50 grams of glucose or glucose polymers are recommended. Fructose and sucrose should be avoided as they can refill liver glycogen and interrupt ketosis. Additionally protein can be added to the post-workout meal to help with recovery. Dietary fat should be avoided since it will slow digestion and could lead to fat storage when insulin levels are high.
  5. If post-workout carbohydrates are not consumed, taking in protein only can still enhance recovery as blood glucose and insulin should be slightly elevated from the consumption of pre-workout carbohydrates.

In my opinion (as an avid runner) this is the only way to successfully use the 4HB slow-carb diet and continue to train without “bonking”. The P90X routine (mentioned in our competition) is no different.  High intensity training requires glucose be readily available to be used for fuel. While “slow carbing” you are quickly burning your muscle and liver stores of glycogen and then you must convert fat to energy. This will not keep pace with your workout routine.

I would highly recommend using targeted carbohydrate consumption as described above for the best success. You will still be able to maintain ketosis and burn fat (which is the goal)!

4 Hour Life Quick Tips:

  1. For every 2 sets performed during weight training, 5 grams of carbohydrate should be consumed to replenish the glycogen used.
  2. The method described above is for individuals who want to perform high intensity activity, which may or may not include weight training. If you are on the slow carb diet and using Occam’s Protocol you should not need to ingest extra carbohydrates in relation to your workout as long as you have a cheat day! which should allow for sufficient restoration of your body’s glycogen stores. 

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{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }

Jason June 1, 2011 at 1:54 pm

Stephen,

Not to question science, but my typical carbohydrate load on the slow-carb diet is around 276 grams, 60 of which seem to come from sugar. This doesn’t seem ketogenic at all. Am I doing something wrong?

Basically, I eat chicken, eggs, and lentils cooked with some olive oil. I get about 2000 calories. While it doesn’t raise insulin levels, I don’t see how it is ketogenic.

Maybe, again, I am missing the science or the method?

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Stephen June 3, 2011 at 5:29 am

Honestly, prior to doing ketone testing among my patients using this diet I would have agreed 100% with both of you. I was equally surprised to see not just some ketones, but 40+ Ketones among the urine samples of several participants using the diet. This was not always the case though. On some visits they would test positive and on other visits they would test negative.

Actually you both made me realize I needed to change the beginning of the post from “is” a ketogenic diet to “can be” a ketogenic diet. Obviously this would be true though for the vast majority of reduced carbohydrate diets if you could keep carbohydrate consumption low: according to the data around 100 grams per day to be ketogenic.

Jason you said you were eating roughly 276 grams per day. And you said 60g come from sugar. Do you mean net carbs? As in total carbs minus the fiber content? Because if you do then this is the number you should be looking at and I think in this case you could be in a ketogenic range.
Most online calculators do the math wrong. I just placed a can of Bush’s best reduced sodium kidney beans into mynetdiary.com and it said ½ cup was 22g of carbs. But this is not the case when it comes to ketogenic diets. What we want is total carb (I am looking at the can) which is 22g minus the Fiber content which was 8g. This gives us 14g of net carbs, this is the number we should use.

Another thing that accounts for this is the fact that the carbs allowed in the diet are foods that are considered “low glycemic foods” that are often high in fiber. Because of fiber’s low digestibility, it provides little or no food energy and does not significantly impact glucose and insulin levels that is why we subtract it when calculating our daily carbs.
Jason, you brought up veggies, but ½ cup of broccoli has 2.2 grams of NET CARBS.
Also you really have to account for exercise. If you are performing high intensity exercise during the day you will likely use much of these available carbohydrates for fuel. Therefore despite taking in higher levels of NET CARBS you may still become ketogenic as you will likely burn quickly through these available carbs and then have to resort to the breakdown of free fatty acids for fuel. Hence the need for targeted carbohydrate consumption to assure your body has enough available glucose for high intensity training.

This is very important toward the end of the week as you become increasingly more deficient in liver and muscle stores of carbohydrates. It is only when these stores have been depleted that you will really be able to become ketogenic (at least that is what I understand).

We also have a machine testing unit at our clinic to test urine which may be more sensitive than the test strips, although I have not tested these side by side which I should. I assume that there is a threshold for blood ketones so that they will pass readily into the urine and be detected by test strips. I have tried to find this to no avail. I guess this could be confirmed by comparing blood tests to urine tests and seeing if there was a difference. I assume there are various levels of ketosis. I also am assuming that probably any carbohydrate restricted diet causes some form of FFA breakdown which accounts for its ability to provide such great results. Thus it may be ketogenic but just not at a detectable level to be seen in your urine.

The patients who reached the highest levels of ketones in their urine had the best weight loss.

Also the patients who exercised the most, or those that were diabetic and on Metformin (which I am sure is the reason they had ketones) had the highest levels in their urine.

Thank you guys for your great comments, I think this is an interesting topic. Just to note the induction phase in programs like Atkins is 20 grams of NET carbs per day, the maintenance phase I believe is around 60g. I found it interesting as well that Lyle McDonald in his book claims that 100 grams is ketogenic. I still believe this is very attainable on the 4 Hour Body diet. I also believe that ketogenic may not necessarily mean detectable on urine strips but: shifting the body’s metabolism away from glucose and toward fat utilization and in this case I think the 4 Hour Body Slow Carb diet fits the bill. It is (or can be) a ketogenic diet.

Also Read Jason’s Awesome blog at: http://freegraddegree.blogspot.com/

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Justin June 1, 2011 at 4:34 pm

Hi Stephen,

I would also agree with the previous commenter that eating that many beans and veggies that SCD is not CKD.

Tim even says that in his blog post about SCD http://bit.ly/aACW6V
“This is the only diet besides the rather extreme Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD) that has produced veins across my abdomen, which is the last place I lose fat”

Take out the beans and reduce the veggies then I would call that CKD. I don’t do any pee test but I don’t think I was ever in ketosis when I used to eat beans.

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Stephen June 3, 2011 at 5:44 am

Justin, thanks for the wonderful comment. I replied to it (in a mini novel) in the above. Also I need to give you a shout out, I checked out your blog and your progress has been amazing. You have inspired me to be a better man! If anybody is reading this and has not been to Justin’s Blog check our his progress and you may buy a second copy of the book: http://www.myfourhourbodydiary.com/2011/04/23/progress-update-2/

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DC July 18, 2011 at 7:49 pm

Hi, question… I eat very healthy am want to lose some fat so I started thw 4hb diet. I find that beans and lentals do not offer enough fiber….leading to bloated and irregular bowel movements. Is there anyway to overcome this w/out cheating… i.e. quiona or bran?

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Stephen July 18, 2011 at 11:49 pm

Hi DC,

If you want my honest opinion I believe in an 80/20 principle (to use a bit of Tim Ferriss theory on life) as well with the 4HB diet. In other words if you stay 80% on the side of the good stuff and 20% on the side of everything else you will succeed.

And I say this after about 6 months of using this diet in my patient population. What I have found overall is that compliance with this diet is not very good in the long term. Therefore, I believe that tweaking it a bit here and there to suit your own dietary needs is not only OK, but in the long term appears to be more effective.

This is especially true if you are implementing an exercise routine into the meal plan, where some well placed starchy foods can be of benefit.

In fact since you mention quinoa this is actually referenced several times in the 4HB. Tim recommends it as part of Occam’s Protocol saying:

“The meal composition is nearly identical to the Slow-Carb Diet, as are the tenets, though we now add a starch such as brown rice or quinoa to the non-shake meals.”

Also, don’t forget to snack on those raw vegetables and drink plenty of water. As fiber intake is increased, the intake of beverages should also be increased, since fiber absorbs water.

Also if you are just starting the diet, give your body a 2 week adjustment period, it is very common to have vague GI discomfort that in my experience usually clears in 2-4 weeks. Also consider the addition of probiotics, even though these often CAUSE bloating at the beginning, dosing them every other day can be effective and may help to reduce your symptoms in the long run… let me know how it goes!

oh yeah, don’t forget to soak those black beans in water, this reduces flatulence-related substances like raffinose and can really help!

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John June 6, 2012 at 8:37 pm

That’s an interesting idea and I feel I’ve solved the constipation issue through ingesting 4 tablespoons of psylium husk (24 grams) of fiber with a quart of water each night. This allows me to go extremely low carb 15-25 grams per day on a cyclical ketogenic diet without experiencing any constipation issues.

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Xenon July 29, 2011 at 10:07 am

Do you even know what a high intensity training is? Please inform yourself before writing this nonsense. The TDK was designed to work for bodybuilders. “For every 2 sets performed during WEIGHT TRAINING, 5 grams of carbohydrate should be consumed to replenish the glycogen used.”. and immediately you write “The method described above is for individuals who want to perform high intensity activity, NOT WEIGHT TRAINING. ” Please use google and read about the difference between HIT and HIIT.

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Stephen July 30, 2011 at 10:40 pm

Xenon you are absolutely right and I really do thank you for your comment. A bit harsh, but I am tough and it was well deserved. Because you are right, high intensity activity would include weight training. In the quick tips what I was really trying to say (which upon review was said very poorly) is that people using the CKD (which most of the time the 4HB diet doesn’t qualify as depending on total carb intake) will not need to use extra carbs while performing Occam’s Protocol. Which although is high intensity would not be enough to warrant extra carbohydrate intake for the average person attempting the protocol. They should be able to restore their glycogen during the recovery period on their cheat days as well as the moderate amount of carbs that they consume as part of the diet.

This was not well stated above! I will revise and update this post shortly. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. And as always if you would like to write me with a revision I will be happy to post it either at the beginning of this post or as a new entry. I do not want to present nonsense to anyone, especially well-intentioned people who may read this post.

Thanks for taking the time to let me know, I actually really appreciate it!!

Stephen

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Timothy Afonso September 11, 2011 at 9:03 am

Hello, I think your site might be having browser compatibility issues. When I look at your website in Opera, it looks fine but when opening in Internet Explorer, it has some overlapping. I just wanted to give you a quick heads up! Other then that, excellent blog!

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Stephen September 11, 2011 at 9:13 am

Timothy,

Thank you for letting me know this, I really appreciate it! Quick question (if you have the time to reply) what version of IE are you using? On IE 9 it appeared to be showing up OK. Although I just re-sized the main reading panel yesterday and I am wondering if this is causing the error… Again thanks so much. I am going to re-size it back right now. I would love it if you could tell me if this seems to work now on your machine.. Again, thanks so much.

Stephen

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Meera February 5, 2013 at 6:03 pm

Hi Stephen,

I’m currently training for a marathon and just started the SCD. I did my long run the day after cheat day, but have a mid-week medium run (8-10 miles) that I’m not sure how to handle. Do you have any tips? Maybe it’s all psychological but I can’t imagine running over ~60 minutes without a carb buffer!

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Stephen February 5, 2013 at 7:16 pm

As a runner myself I think this varies greatly from person to person.

I can often start an 8-10 mile run on an overnight fast with a small mid-run carbohydrate after 1 hour (otherwise I bonk). For most doing endurance training such as a full marathon training plan I would recommend maintaining some carbs in your diet. Many recommend a 20-30 g carbohydrate load pre-run and then a post run carb. But then again I think this depends on your individual needs as you will see below.

In the morning your glycogen stores should be full, they will deplete themselves during the run, and that is why there is a 30 minute “grace period” that is a sweet spot for post-run fueling. Most of these carbohydrates will not be stored as fat as they will be used to replenish your post-run glycogen stores. It is during this time I often refuel with carbs. It will not effect your diet and you will feel much, much better.

Again depending on the length of your run, you may need a small mid-run carbohydrate… this will not negatively impact your scd.

If you don’t already, I would definitely take a listen to the “Marathon Training Academy” podcast. It is a wonderful support during marathon training, and is fun for long runs. They are full of great info and they just had a wonderful interview with Ben Greenfield in their last episode.

Let me know how it goes.

Stephen

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Meera February 6, 2013 at 8:53 am

Thanks for the response, Stephen! So I trusted the system, had my habitual morning cup of brown rice protein sludge (powder+water=yum) and headed out to run. Ran seven progressive miles and finished really strong! This might actually be the best average pace I’ve maintained for over five miles in a row. Then ran to do groceries, where Think Thin bars were on sale. Those claim 0g sugar but about 20g other carbs so I figured they’d decently replenish those glycogen stores :) Greenfield’s podcast was pretty helpful, too!

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Alissa February 7, 2013 at 2:02 pm

Hi Stephen,

I’m also a runner and just started the SCD. In your opinion, what is the best mid-run carb you consume to keep you from fading during a 8-12 mi run? Also, is it normal to feel “flu-like” during the first week of the diet?

Thanks

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Stephen February 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm

This is absolutely a personal choice. Many people spend a lot of money on gels and “bars” from specialty companies such as Hammer Nutrition. For me I keep it simple. Believe it or not during my last two half marathons I took a breakfast bar and stuffed it in my shorts. It doesn’t seem to upset my stomach and it tastes perfect to me mid run. The only advice I can give you is to experiment a little and find what works best for you. You want to make sure you have this down before you run an event as this is not a good place to experiment.

As far as feeling “flu-like” are you sure you don’t have the flu? I have seen a billion cases in the clinic the last two weeks? But, yes, I think it is normal to feel a bit tired (and possibly achy) starting slow carb, I have heard others report this as well. Hang in there though, these things always pass after the first several weeks and you will be happy you stayed the course!! Also, if you are keeping up your normal running routine make sure you are getting “enough” carbs, I think if you are doing 8-12 mile training runs on a very low carb diet this can actually be bad… and eating a post run carb might make you feel a lot better and shouldn’t effect your diet.

Stephen

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Alissa February 8, 2013 at 1:55 pm

Thanks! You definitely answered my questions. I’ve increased my carb intake on days I have long runs and it helps tremendously and I’m still losing weight. I know I don’t have the flu because everyday I feel less fatigued as I’m assuming my body is getting used to the diet. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t the only one! Thanks again.

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